[RTC List] New record set yesterday for alternative energy generation

[Larry Goldberg]

Interesting discussion this stirred up...

Here are a few comments in reply to your posting:

> I did not want to give the impression( which I guess I did) that  
> wind energy was the only cause for a down turn but when you pull 85B  
> in new taxes and job elimination have to at least hurt a little.

Spain is having a severe downturn for the same reasons as most of  
Western Europe and U.S.- overinflated housing and sub-prime market  
meltdown.  You can thank the banks (and government lack of oversight)  
for that.  Nothing else is even close to explaining job losses and  
economic downturn.

> Carbon tax=bad idea.  This will still drive the cost of everything  
> up and we will still have the "problem" of subsidized energy

I disagree.  As it is, you and I - the general public, pay for all the  
externalities of pollution, whether it is water, air, or soil.  It  
wasn't until the cost of polluting our rivers (fines and regulations)  
forced polluters to clean up their act and find new ways to  
manufacture products without dumping pollution in the water.  A carbon  
tax is an excellent way to "internalize the externalities" and force  
us, as a society, to face the "real costs" of our oil addiction.   
We're going to pay one way or the other - either we'll pay now and  
come up with alternative means to do what we do (whether it's new ways  
to grow our food, transport products to market or make electricity)or  
our kids and grandkids will pay for it with the ultimate environmental  
degradation, sea-level rise and climate impacts.  At least a carbon  
tax is a market-based solution which allows for creative financial  
solutions in the trading of carbon credits on open markets.

Yes, it will take years to implement and work out details for any new  
concept such as this, but the status quo is unacceptable and unless we  
want to mandate change (which is unpopular to EVERYONE) then we need  
to allow the open market to do what it does best - re-allocate  
resources to come up with viable solutions.

> As you pointed out subsidies have been a big contributor to the  
> problem ( lots of problems) masking the real costs and impacts of  
> many things in our everyday life.  Ending these overnight would be  
> economic suicide but a gradual pull out ( of subsidizing everything)  
> will allow people to see the true costs and impacts of their  
> decisions.

I agree.  A carbon tax (and cap-and-trade) will create a market-based  
solution to overcome subsidies over time.

> Spain's windmill project has not created the new great "Green"  
> economy it was touted to do.

You ought to check out Germany.  They came up with innovative  
legislation which incentivized purchasing alternative energy  
electricity production and now EVERYONE is in the business of putting  
in PV systems all over the country.  Germany may be the biggest  
alternative energy producer in the near future and we could learn a  
lot from them.  It's important to note - it was a market-based  
solution not a regulatory-mandated solution.

> It has been more costly and turned into an economic consumer instead  
> of a producer.
>
> Does not produce the amounts of energy it was intended to produce  
> and saying that it is making 40-50% of spain's power without  
> perspective was just wrong.
>
> There was some talk of a project like this for Humbolt county.  If  
> this is want you want than so be it.

You should take note that the sponsor of the Humboldt wind project is  
Shell Oil.  They don't like to lose money.  It's got to be a good bet,  
you can be sure.  We did wind analysis for this very area back in the  
'70s and considered a 100 MW wind farm back then.  The problem then,  
as now, was transmission constraint from PG&E.  Had that project been  
build back then, Humboldt County would have been a net energy exporter  
by now, and we would have a bunch of long-term jobs building and  
maintaining wind farms.  It's bound to happen sooner or later and  
eventually all this will come to pass.

> Personally I would look at some other technologies first.

Be my guest, but we've done the "easy" stuff already and need to take  
a different path.  We can learn from others or make our own mistakes.   
Hopefully we'll get it together before we HAVE to do it!